Public sentiment indicates significant frustration and anger towards the healthcare system, specifically regarding medical fraud and the challenges faced by patients in accessing necessary care. Many express concern over systemic failures that exacerbate the opioid crisis, affecting honest patients who struggle to obtain adequate treatment.

Healthcare providers

Pharmaceutical companies

Medicare

Patients

[deleted]

No reps where I work currently, but in the past? Eat the food. Smile blankly. Change nothing about my practice unless I feel there is actual value to my patients.

ETA: will look into it myself and discuss with spouse, who happens to be a pharmacist. Incredible perk in my case. Do recommend marrying a pharmacist. Very handy.

bassandkitties

The only reps you or your office should interact with are ones you’re requesting information from

IamTalking

Can you not just review the primary literature regarding the drugs and related discourse and decide for yourself?

Are the studies well done? How’s the sample size?  Are the endpoints clinically significant? Is it repeatable? Is there bias? If there is a statistically significant difference in a clinically relevant outcome, how large is it? What’s the NNT? What are the adverse events? What’s the NNH? What’s the actual cost difference between this and current standard of care? Is the difference worth that dollar amount to your patient population? 

I don’t deal with reps at my current office, but when I did I didn’t bother asking any of this to them because their job is to get you to prescribe the med they’re pushing. That’s all. That’s what they’re paid to do. And if it didn’t work, pharma companies wouldn’t be paying them to do it.

boatsnhosee

I decline to meet with any reps who come to my clinic, period. They are welcome to leave materials (print outs, samples, etc) and whether I look at them or throw directly in the trash depends how busy I am that day. 

workingonit6

One of the things that you should have learned in med school and residency is how to research drug studies.  All you need to do is look up the generic name of the med, and google it, and you should find some published studies.  And yes, drug companies do sponsor the studies, but if they're in a reputable peer-reviewed journal, the data is probably decent - but you have to look at a it with a judgmental eye.

Also, it's a great idea to make connections with specialists in the area who will answer your questions.  When I first started practicing in a new area, I went to the drug dinners, and listened to the speakers.  The ones whose presentations were an obvious pitch for the company's new wonder drug, I never talked to .  But there were mostly reputable doctors who were using the time to give a well-prepared lecture on the topic, and mentioned all the classes of drugs used for the condition, including the new wonder drug.  Their balanced presentation made me feel I could trust them.  I then spoke with them, and often afterwards, they were willing to give me advice on how to manage patients with conditions relating to their specialty.  I learned a ton from these docs.  For the next 20 years, the ones who were good, I would call with any questions I had.

I put drug reps in the same category as realtors.  They lie to sell you something.

snowplowmom

No one here has mentioned it, but when I shadowed family medicine, the physician solely met with drug reps, and did it pretty often, because they would give him free samples of medications, and he could give these out to patients on case-by-case. Very rural area. 

Since no one has mentioned it, does this not happen elsewhere?

Crazhand

Don't talk to the drug reps. Look at data, studies, and guidelines to base your decision making. Not what a drug rep who is employed by said drug company tells you about the drugs. 

This is when all those journal clubs/ EBM sessions should come in handy. If there is a drug you hear about and you want to know if it's more efficacious than the standard of care, look at the trials that got it FDA approval. See if they compared it to standard of care or placebo. See if the study was randomized and double blind or if there are weird decisions made in the inclusion/exclusion, or in the outcome measures.

showtime013

No reps. No samples. 

Keep any eye out for emerging treatments but the latest and greatest rarely has head to head data and always costs more.

NYVines

Smile and nod for 3 minutes, forget the name of whatever crap they’re selling before I’ve even walked out of the lunchroom. I listen to them because our clinic staff consider free lunch to be a major benefit.

Vegetable_Block9793

My residency actually had us meet with reps and MSLs in a controlled environment.

Reps are good for two things
1) food
2) insurance coverage

They will keep up to date with changes in your local plans and coverage requirements.  They also will keep up with patient assistance programs.  Any drug you will prescribe a lot of, like ozempic or mounjaro, you want the rep emailing you updated information on coverage changes.  

For actual information about the drug they are garbage

Plenty-Serve-6152

I'm at the other extreme. 

Lunches 3-4 days a week. Talk for ten minutes. 

The reps only get to me via lunch

InternistNotAnIntern

I have a reputation in my office for turning them away (Lead MA) and made it so known I wouldnt talk to them and they could send an email that our front desk just automatically turns them away now. I have patients to worry about i don't care about 99% of what they have to say

Ambulancedollars

bicyclemycology

I don’t see the point of listening to drug reps when you can now look up the information you need in five minutes or less that is unbiased.

Our office years ago stopped drug reps, and samples. Most of the samples were disappearing from the closet, by staff for their own use.

While they were here, they hung out not far from my examination rooms. One patient left, saying “I hope you enjoy that lunch I’m paying for.“

Apprehensive-Safe382

I don’t. I don’t speak with them; I don’t acknowledge them. 

They can’t provide me any information that I can’t locate myself.

As well, all of those meals you supply your NPI for are available for public review through the federal gov’t.

Curious_Guarantee_37

Private practice - I get a lot of med samples from our reps. They buy lunch for our entire office of about 20 and I give them 10 mins at lunch. It’s a nice perk for the staff and the samples go a long way for patients without coverage or waiting on PA/appeal or who temporarily lose insurance etc. Some are quite good at tricks and tips on getting the med covered. I tell the front who I don’t like interacting with or who I don’t need more info from (Loreev XR for example, or Synthroid) and they schedule those ones less often. Otherwise I’ll meet them at the front to sign for samples for 30 seconds but that’s about it.

Living-Bite-7357

Why are you talking about new drugs like they’re foreign concepts?

New drugs and treatments come out all the time. Read the primary literature and decide for yourself whether you want to prescribe it. Relying on drug reps to tell you about it is ridiculous

eckliptic

I talk to them but only during lunch hour. I love getting educational materials for my pts from them, some companies have great info and theyre usually in color which is a huge bonus. 

They usually have colorful pages on dosage information too. 

 I look at the infographics, ask for copies, take notes, ask about top 5 side effects by numbers, black box warnings, contraindications, etc. Its nice having free samples so pts can see if they tolerate it too. I have them go back on slides to compare data, I look at the fine print, etc.

You get out of it what you put in. 

The moment they start coming in during the time I'm seeing patients though..... blacklist. Who the fuck do you think you are taking my precious time away with patients?!

Fluffy_Ad_6581

I see reps all the time.    I use the samples and we have 2 office lunches a week.   Take what they say with skepticism.

geoff7772

The only ones I care for are cgms and inhalers. Even then I'll just go sign it quickly. I don't need a discussion

manuscriptdive

Don’t take drug reps. That’s the best method.

MoobyTheGoldenSock

Tell them you’ll be a level 10 prescriber for a handjob and some chick fil a every time they come in

As just an admin, I use the reps constantly for insurance and coupon access. Our attending said when I started “if they need a specific drug, they need it and I’m not prescribing something lesser because it’s cheaper.” Just today, a patient got kinda pissed they would be paying $100/month for Lodoco because colchicine hasn’t been specifically studied for cardiovascular outcomes. I get the need to follow the data, so having the drug reps around is helpful. Not sure what I’ll do when the coupons end.

WeirdFeature6292

It's actually kinda,...believable?  


Medicare spent $1.5 TRILLION in 2024, up to $50 billion of which are estimated to be improper payments and only some of that is fraud. The system is pay now, ask questions (and make arrests) later. So we're getting patients healthcare as designed up front and eating a 3% cost from inefficiencies and bad actors. How much would stricter oversight cost, how much would it save, and what would be the cost to patients in terms of delayed and denied care?

On the other hand, our total healthcare spending including private insurance suffers from a higher total of 3%-10% fraudulent spending, therefore private insurance isn't doing better than medicare or is doing worse. Yet, it is structured to deny and disincentivize care from the get-go to save costs, reducing care delivery. Doesn't seem efficient to me.

I don't know if 3% improper payments is 'perfect' equilibrium for spending to disincentivize fraud vs fraud that gets through, but that equilibrium exists somewhere. Maybe tech and audits will help, maybe we need a little more of that, but pursuing no fraud will come at the cost significantly reduced care delivery, and I suspect exponentially more dollars.

thespot84

We talk about this all the time.. I know of dying patients that pt/ot 'worked with'. I've seen drs notes reporting, ".. physician spent 108 minutes with direct patient care.." when the doctor did a two minute drive-by at the patient's doorway- and the patientwas vented, sedated, no direct patient care whatsoever. covid was especially bad when certain consulting physicians would fradulently write out, "saw pt for '38' minutes'". it was always 38 minutes... WHEN!? WHERE?! I never left these patient's room and the most these physicians ever did was look into the patient's room through the window.

___buttrdish

Florida governor Rick Scott founded Columbia hospital corp which merged to form HCA system. HCA committed fraud under Scott’s leadership that eventually led to his ousting. After a multi year investigation, HCA plead guilty and paid a record 1.7 billion in penalties in 2003. After his departure from HCA, Rick Scott served as a U.S. senator then the governor of Florida….

0PercentPerfection

What's so frustrating is that people like me have to beg for care for my father, yet these scams happen. I can't get him wound collagen treatments in the home so have to go through riding in an ambulance with him once a week to go to a clinic. The wound vac he has for another wound which is healing, but apparently not quickly enough, I have just been told by this irritating company SunMed (who has the world's worst outsourced support) that the vac is no longer covered and I have to return it or pay cash. The amount they bill Medicare is insane. 

The Medicare system tried to bully me into putting him on hospice several months ago without even explaining WHY they thought he'd die in 6 months (he didn't because I told them to F off). It's because he's high risk, EXPENSIVE to PROPERLY treat, and more profitable to hospice providers than hospitals or home health.  Elderly and disabled people suffer more and more and the greedy just profit either way.

KaliLineaux

A few surgeons note that they were there for the key portion of the case (criteria for billing) when yeah they poked their head in for a minute without even scrubbing in and their fellow actually did the whole case.

readbackcorrect

Is there a link to a news article about this?

BenGay29

Can’t be true. Fraud is only committed by the guy playing video games in his mom’s basement /s

Suckbag_McGillicuddy

mydogisacircle

Shocker that this system is corrupt and evil. 

I worked for home health for years and you have to turn your head to many things. Reporting fraudulent care does nothing. I’ve also been fired before for discrimination (moved to a Mormon area and stopped going to the church thanks to Reddit). 

People can be loving but they usually terrible to each other. Even worse now that capitalism rules and God is dead. The healthcare system will crumble regardless 

amuse84

Lonely_Location_4862

My PCP was charged with massive fraud related to this or something similar. Shut down his practice suddenly and it was a disaster. He had whole shell and shell newspaper companies lol, readable on the public court filings. Like damn dude doctors make good money

ViewRevolutionary779

Amateur hour stuff compared to what insurance companies overcode and overcharge medicare for running "advantage" plans.

FaustianPact

DETROIT – On April 25, 2025, a federal jury convicted Dr. Charise Valentine, 69, of Southfield, of conspiracy to unlawfully distribute prescription opioids, including Oxycodone and Oxymorphone, and 10 counts of illegal distribution of Oxycodone and Oxymorphone, Acting United States Attorney Julie A. Beck announced.

Beck was joined in the announcement by Special Agent in Charge Cheyvorea Gibson, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Detroit Division, and Special Agent in Charge Mario Pinto of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Office of Inspector General’s (HHS-OIG) Chicago Regional Office.

Dr. Valentine was convicted for her role as one of two primary doctors at Orthopedic Medical Building who issued illegal opioid prescriptions. From November 2016 to July 2018, Dr. Valentine issued more than 3,000 prescriptions for more than 200,000 pills to supposed “patients” who did not have a legitimate medical need for the drugs. The “patients” were typically brought to the clinic by “patient recruiters/marketers.” Orthopedic Medical Building, a sham clinic that operated out of a warehouse in Oak Park, Michigan, accepted only cash, and charged patients $200-500 per prescription, but did not charge anything if the patient didn’t receive an opioid prescription. The prices were not based on the service provided, but instead based on the quantity, type, and dosage of prescription opioids that the “patient” received, usually Oxycodone 30mg or Oxymorphone 40mg, two of the most addictive prescription opioids. These prescription drugs are also among the most highly diverted prescription opioids due to their high street value. The clinic also charged cash for the creation of fraudulent medical records for the supposed “patients.”

Dr. Valentine was paid about 50% of the clinic’s proceeds – more than $500,000 in cash over about 19 months – and was paid only if she wrote an opioid prescription to a patient, not based on any supposed “medical care.” She received an envelope of thousands in cash each day she worked.

The other defendants charged in the case, including clinic operator Iris Winchester, Dr. Michele Ritter, clinic employee Kristina Brown, and Joyce Robinson, previously pleaded guilty.

“Addressing the sources of the opioid epidemic – which include addictive opioid prescription pills as well as street drugs – remains a top priority of this office,” stated Acting U.S. Attorney Beck. “We continue to focus on doctors who, rather than helping to address the terrible impact the opioid epidemic, use the cover of a “medical office” to write illegal prescriptions for the opioids that fuel the crisis.”

"The conviction of Dr. Valentine, who abused her position of trust by prescribing opioids in exchange for cash, underscores the FBI's strong commitment to holding medical professionals accountable under federal law," said Cheyvoryea Gibson, Special Agent in Charge of the FBI in Michigan. "Physicians and other healthcare providers are entrusted with the well-being of our communities and are expected to maintain the highest ethical standards. Those who violate that trust for personal financial gain can expect to be investigated and brought to justice by the FBI's Detroit Field Office. I also want to thank our partners at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services – Office of Inspector General for their collaboration and support throughout this case."

“Physicians who prescribe powerful opioids and other controlled substances, without regard for medical necessity, endanger the health and safety of the very patients they have sworn an oath to protect,” said Mario M. Pinto, Special Agent in Charge of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Inspector General.  “Working in conjunction with our law enforcement partners, our agency is committed to identifying and investigating those medical providers who place profits over patient safety.”

This case was prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorneys Andrew J. Lievense and Wayne F. Pratt. The Eastern District of Michigan is one of the twelve districts included in the Opioid Fraud Abuse and Detection Unit, a Department of Justice initiative that uses data to target and prosecute individuals that are contributing to the nation’s opioid crisis.

The case was investigated by special agents and task force officers of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Department of Health and Human Services-Office of the Inspector General.

MI-1040ES

Cool, but why haven't we gone after the entire Sackler family?

Busterlimes

So are the Pharmaceutical Companies that incentivize prescribing their shit through backdoor deals and bonuses are also getting charged? Right? The actual pushers? Nah?

Dammit. This kind of shit makes it so much harder for people who have legitimate need for opioids.

I've lost too many people thanks to doctors panicking that they'll be labeled a "pill mill" or lose their license for "over prescribing" and taking away prescriptions from people in serious and legitimate pain.

mizmoose

Based upon Pam Bondi’s numbers that Doctor killed about 1.082 million people.  Fuck that guy!

El_Guap

Ornery-Ticket834

This is freaking wild. We used to share a building with a pain clinic in the area and when they left, police investigators came knocking to look for them. There are some psychos out there and our family doctor really could be one.

shieldal

And people wonder why our healthcare system fuckin sucks

SuccessfulRush1173

Who was paying them? It says she received an envelope with thousands of dollars in cash but who gave her the envelope

Nissan-S-Cargo

Hatem Ataya is sitting in federal prison right now for doing a similar thing.

Worked out of Davison and Lapeer.

Piece of trash.

jessimokajoe

I never had a problem with meds until I started seeing pain management who prescribed me 2 different opiates, one for daily and one for breakthrough pain during flare ups. The pharmacy outright refused to fill them because it was “too early” for me to get more opiates bc I went to urgent care and got 12 Percocets OVER 2 MONTHS AGO during a bad flare up. 

The pharmacy lied to me and said “oh we didn’t get any prescriptions for you.” So I called my doctor and he was confused saying he absolutely sent over my medications and hung up on me to call them. He called me back 45 minutes later and told me about how they said it was too early for me and he called them out on their lie and after being put on hold suddenly the prescriptions magically appeared in their system. I even got the text they were ready for pickup while I was still on the phone with him. It was the first time a doctor cared enough to fight for me and I was moved to tears over that.

Throwawayhelp12736

I've had a cruel lead pharmacist issue. It's in my post history. I went through the rumination anxiety stuff for awhile. After months of complaining, I finally had a meeting with a director and the chief pharmacist. They listened to me, apologized, and launched an investigation. I caused change and they are still respectful to this day. I think you'll find that once she is found guilty, then you will get peace. When you are validated it makes all the difference. Sorry you are going through this. I promise it will get better. Progress is always slow. You'll get there! You're battling for all the chronic pain patients who still have to deal with her abuse.

That is SO DANGEROUS and if the pharmacist were a PHYSICIAN, they would have known that. Being concerned about serious medication interactions is one thing, but making major medical decisions out of clinical context knowing full well you will harm your patient in doing so and just telling them to deal with it - that shit is malpractice, DEFINITELY out of the scope of that position. I have a lot of respect for a lot of pharmacists, but people like this need to have their judgy asses reprimanded. They need to stick to their lane. It would be WILD if this person does not get in serious trouble.  I'm really sorry that you went through this - I'm fucking furious for you.

Assayqueen

Last night I got food poisoning so bad that I didn’t want to live.  I didn’t call an ambulance because I’m in America.  I seriously thought I was dying.  I was cold turkeyed off pain meds about two years ago by a cruel PA.  It amazes me how far their healing professionals gas lit and flat out lied to me.  I have PTSD from being a firefighter paramedic in the most dangerous city in California and third most dangerous in the country.  I don’t have the bandwidth to deal with anymore intentional cruelty.  I’m fucked for life, thanks to the anti opioid movement that HAS GONE SAY TOO FAR.

Dirtdancefire

You are an amazingly strong person, and I'm beyond sorry that someone with a moral crusade was in such a position and decided to cause you such harm. I'm glad you are stable again, and I hope that in time you will find some peace. Congratulations on the life partner. I'm glad there has been some positive during this awful period. Take care

FatsTopher

Your GP just wrote you a bridge script. It’s not that unusual. I once went through 10 days without meds after being on them for 12 years. I won’t bore you with the details, but going from 220 mme’s to 0, was horrid. It was just an unexpected series of events/mistakes. I had 2 trips to the er and 2 fabulous doctors that helped me. Much lower doses, but a tiny bit of relief which carried me through a little until I could get in to see my pm. W/D are NO joke. It didn’t take me 3 months to stabilize, probably was about a month. I don’t wish the hell i went through, what you went through, on anyone. It’s a dark brutal experience. I got tired of giving myself pep talks to keep from going off the deep end. There’s no sleep, even with ambien. Can’t eat and have to force fluids. Nothing stays in, it comes out both ways. I even had hallucinations. Just brutal. Still I feel my experience doesn’t measure up to yours. (I am aware we aren’t in competition) I am SO sorry you had to endure, what can only explained as, torture.

livingmydreams1872

I'm assuming your Canadian like me as surely this would go nowhere in the states. However if you are Canadian fuck me the amount of times I could have reported my pharmacist for the exact thing 😡 I hope you succeed OP! Although I've never heard of getting a payout. Their malpractice covers so much in terms of error, doctors included. I've always been told you'll never win a case against a medical professional and it proved true. My grandpa has a quadruple bypass and the first time they tried the surgeons didn't communicate which resulted in both ends of his jugular being cut open. Fixed that huge mistake and closed him up. My uncles always said if we lived in a different country we'd be rich with that big of a mistake. I think we maybe got an I'm sorry🙄 I really want to hear how this turns out for you OP! Sounds promising actually.

Ok_Mathematician4519

Unfortunately common practice here in USA

kindcrypto

Thank you for sharing your experience. 

I am glad that you are getting some level of justice through the system. Clearly, nothing would truly make up for what happened to you. But I think you are incredibly strong, and I thank you so much for protecting the next person from being treated the same way. 

I don't know how you get past it. Because I have seen very similar scenarios happen time and again, I decided to quit opiod pain management. That way, at least, I was able to taper down rather than being thrown into full-scale withdrawal with no warning. Now my pain is unmanaged, and my life is much worse. 

I used to dislike and distrust medical providers. But now it goes beyond that. I feel real hatred and disgust for them. I know that it's an impediment to getting good health care. I meditate before going into appointments and manage to remain calm during appointments. But any trust I had is gone.

I have thought about mental health treatment. I even reached out to a few who told me that they don't treat that. But in hindsight, I think that is for the best. To get therapy, for them to get paid, they have to enter a diagnosis code. What diagnosis would they give me? "Medical anxiety"? Once that diagnosis was in my chart, how would my physical health care be impacted? 

Trust is hard to regain once it has been violated.

Baby_Blue_Eyes_13

Are you in the US? Because it's very hard(impossible almost) to win against doctors/ pharmacists. Pharmacists refuse to fill peoples pain medication every day, unfortunately, and they face no repercussions. It happens a lot, and I can't think of a single instance where someone won. 

Maybe you're in a different country, though.

Iceprincess1988

I went through malpractice / neglect by my surgeon + anesthetist after a major surgery last year and was in agony for 14 days after, then months of moderate pain, was told I woke up during surgery among other fuck ups, etc.  It all turned out to have been preventable, the anesthetist just thought I 'seemed' like an addict hence no opioids post surgery. Was informed by legal advocates that despite certainly having a case, legal action would just end up being costly and the Drs would likely win - in my country, you don't get a payout anyway, best I could've hoped was the Drs being reprimanded and not harming anyone else in future.



No idea how to move past it. Similarly to you, I lost so much in the aftermath and physical + psychological recovery, including major permanent setback in terms of management of my chronic illnesses. Sending solidarity. I just try to be 'gentle' with myself and am working on accepting the anger, grief and lack of closure.

insect-enthusiast29

I am so sorry you or anyone has to go through this. I had a pharmacist deny giving me my meds. For some reason he wanted me to wait a few more days. Um, it just doesn't work that way. 
I called my pain doctor and she called the pharmacy and gave them my diagnoses. 
After hat I have not had an issue 

I will say I have an extremely rare disease. And have had many brain and spinal cord surgeries.
Sometimes being a medical unicorn has definitely helped. 
BUT people shouldn't have to be rare to have their pain controlled..it is disgusting.

AuntB2003

That pharmacist should be publicly shamed after you get compensated. The story should get out there to discourage personal bias in prescribing. 

I'm sorry you were so badly affected by their judgementalism

anonymousforever

My God. Overuse concerns. 

I hope she is found guilty.

nettiemaria7

Has she also been reported to the pharmacy regulating board in your area/state/country?

I hope she takes taken to the cleaners, but there should also be professional repercussions for her and her licence to practice. This could’ve killed you.

j_inside

Is there a provincial/federal organization for RA?  If so call them.

But yeah.  I've had some sadistic providers who just look to bully patients for their power trips.  It cost me my career and life as well.  (Hugs)

rainfal

That's just horrible. I can't think of anything else to say but that I'm sorry you've had to suffer because of one asshole pharmacist.

KaristinaLaFae

Sorry.

Tramadol withdrawal is so terrible.

SinghaDog

A trauma this major is something you'll never fully get over, but time and trauma therapy will help. I'm sure you know some of the steps and resources to begin processing this degree of grief and betrayal. Your entire worldview must be shattered. I'm so sorry this was done to you.

Illness-associated grief is different than the grief of loss or conflict PTSD. If you can find a chronic illness support group that may help. It's difficult to find a peer group when your losses are this great but it's worth trying, especially to connect with other individuals who understand. I applaud you for not succumbing to anger and hope you can find the help you need.

rageeyes

Oh my goodness! This had long lasting effects on your life! It’s so horribly unfair that laws empower people to play god with your life. If the doctor wrote the script, I don’t understand how the pharmacist had the power to not fill it! I hope she has to pay for trauma therapy, lost wages, everything! 😥

FLmom67

This makes me so angry. They always punish chronic pain patients who don't abuse their meds but hand out repeat opioid prescriptions to known addicts without batting an eye lid. 

My friend is waiting on a spinal cord stimulator. She has chronic pain for decades and has a chronic pain diagnosis so has been on opioids and not enough IMHO, but her surgeon took her off all her pain meds to "prepare her body" for the surgery.  I was furious. I couldn't attend that appointment to advocate for them but I vowed to go to the 2nd appointment. My friend rang them nearly 2 weeks later asking about a date for the surgery and could they not get some pain meds, as the pain was unbearable. My friend had to have tests and was told they had to be off all pain meds for the tests only to find out that was BS. 

I went to the next appointment and listened to them BS about my friend not needing meds. I let loose, informing them of my medical background and how what they were doing was a form of abuse. I asked them when the date of the surgery would be, only to be told they hadn't requested approval from my friends insurance company yet, which made me go nuts. I asked if going off pain meds was so important then wouldn't it be more realistic and less abusive to wait until we get a date for the surgery and then stop the meds a few weeks before hand. They said no and that she seems to be coping well. My friend wasn't coping and still isn't coping and still no date for surgery. We have had enough and have formally complained them for abuse as my friends other healthcare team found out what they were doing and are backing my friend. The problem is though, they need the surgery and they need pain meds but neither are being given, anytime soon. Of course this is the US, who treat actual chronic pain patients like addicts and treat addicts with respect and give them all the pain meds they want.

Dorshe1104

And then 10 years ago in the US it was managing a residential rental and there were dozens of opioid prescription bottles, empty on the floor after we evicted the tenant. These were for copious amounts, like 360 morphine tablets 1 week prior. I didn't know morphine came in tablets. The tenants had 6 children and the various prescriptions were for all of them at different pharmacies in the state and different doctors. It was bizarre. I started saving them thinking I would take it to the police station but I already had my hands full getting the house cleaned out and ready to rent again.

It's sad when those that need it can't get it and then there are those abusing the system like these tenants. I've never seen anything like it! How do you use 360 pills in 1 week?

utahlashgirl

That makes my blood fucking boil... Who does she think she is?! Fuck that dumbass pharmacist! 😡

fluffymuff6

Hunt them down and inflict an equal amount of pain?

Synchro911

I never liked tramadol or found it to help me in any way but I'm glad it works for you. I also heard that it can cause serotonin syndrome or something so I've stayed away from it.   It sounds like you did exactly what should have been done and I thank you for doing that and filing a complaint that's being handled.  Not everyone is an addict, but we do become dependent on meds to have a somewhat normal life and not do anything drastic.

Although the pain of withdrawals you went through was no doubt horrific and unnecessary my suggestion is to hoard/hide at least a week or 2 worth of meds as back up.  Or enough that should you be cut off, you can safely wean yourself off which regardless will be uncomfortable.  If you can't help yourself if they're accessible, ask someone else to hold that stash for you so it's not tempting you to take them if they're where you live.

Itsaloadofnonsense

FUCK THEM!!!!!! I am so sorry. Once you can function fully and safely, consider advocating and being as loud about this is possible. I hope you get a bunch of $$$$ but that will never make up for what you lost &amp; I’m so sorry. Hopefully this will result in internal policy changes and additional education and a posted pharmacy patients rights and resources. 
They should know that one simple decision they make, likely without thinking about their actions (likely for a sanctimonious, pious, bitchy reason) can change someone’s life. I think this was a rash, superiority, self-absorbed decision because it was deactivated so fast. Why so fast?

From a fellow Tramadol chronic pain patient and fellow Social Worker, I’m sorry! I feel like a 1 on 1 with this pharmacist in the guise of a victim impact statement is warranted. This pharmacist should be required to attend the EAP therapy session, suspended and demoted. Maybe even required to complete a BX/psyc evaluation!

1ftinfrontofother

My heart hurts for what you’ve been through. You’re right; no amount of compensation will ever be enough to make up for what this person did. I sincerely hope that the sanctions against her will at least save another person one day, from having to endure what you have. And also, may karma bite her butt when she at some point will need help from someone who will treat her exactly as she treated you.

SnooWoofers5115

We need to start holding these Pharmacists accountable for their bullshit

No_Quote_9067

Oh wow :( big hugs to you friend 
I am so sorry this happened to you, so so unfair and cruel
I have had similar issues in the past and it’s so hurtful

ProtectionOnly7016

I'm so sorry you went through this. I AM SO PROUD OF YOU FOR FILING THE COMPLAINT. Too many of us stay silent and the busyness of the world takes over. Thank you

rctocm

If you are ever in the US I can offer to do EMDR for you for this 

I guess you're in the US... So... A gun? May I suggest the Beretta M93R? 7 three rounds bursts in a magazine.

Ooijennnnnn

This is why after not using the dark web for 2 decades, i spent an hour yesterday finding how it works nowdays and getting my prescription from there. Its cheaper than at my pharmacy and i dont have to deal with the nazis over there going against my doctor's prescriptions.

SirTinou

First, I’m really sorry for what you went through. I’m sure there was a better way to handle it. 

As a pharmacist myself, I’ve seen both sides of this. During the 90s, 00s, and part of the 10s, corporate wanted us to “just fill” anything, regardless of how harmful it could be to the patient, with our jobs being threatened if we didn’t. The corporations had $$$ in their eyes. Then the proverbial stuff hit the fan, and the corporations were hit with millions, if not billions in fines, so they developed Draconian policies, again without regard for the patient, and again threatening our jobs if we didn’t comply. 

I’m sorry this happened to you and I do think there was a better was to handle it from both the pharmacist and the prescriber.

Hot_Classic_67

Your dr should’ve sent in a new script. They aren’t good past a year and they should know that. Tramadol is a controlled substance in most states. 

Not sure you’ll get anywhere with the lawsuit as there was no death or permanent injury which is typically what it takes these days for malpractice, unfortunately. But drs and pharmacies will refuse to fill all the time. 

Idk if there is ever getting over it. I have a surgical injury that’s been affecting my life and I’ve missed 3 of the last 4 years of work, on daily meds, have had other injuries stemming from the nerve damage and now have a brace, etc. I still get angry about it.

Hope_for_tendies

Good luck, but dot count your chicken before theyre hatched. You have to show 2 things, that you have some sort of permanent harm from this, and second that this pharmacist went outside of medical norms. Thats the hard part.

In the US, this wou0ldnt get a foot in the door. Pharmacists can do as they please with an Rx, the SCoTUS says they can refuse to fill any Rx if theres a moral or religious objection. This started over religious objections to filling birth control Rx's. Something this stupid would have to involve religion in some way...

Old-Goat

Unfortunately pharmacists have the legal right to do this. They are bound by the same laws and subject to punishment just like docs when it comes to controlled substances. It's a third line defense so you aren't over prescribed because most docs don't actually look to see what anyone else may have given you other than taking your word for it and there can be dangerous consequences.

SrsBtch

The fact you were prescribed stronger opiates to drain an infected finger is very odd. Are you on arthritis meds for RA?

kronicktrain

With all due respect. You lost all that in 9 days without meds? Yes the pharmacist was an asshole and wrong however, not sure they will be found guilty of ANYTHING. They have complete discretion to not fill.  I find it hard to believe it couldn’t be addressed for 9 days. 

Also you must have a great lawyer who coached you up and now you just went and explained your case above so brilliantly that you are ready for cross examination. Wow all of that went wrong that fast?

I’m sorry you went through this but if I was the pharmacist I would counter sue you and tie you up in litigation until you were drained dry.  

They did their job and have the authority to do what they did. If they get fired it will be a miscarriage of justice.

National-Hold2307

Let it go, forgive the pharmacist, say some prayers...  Deep breathing, exercise, meditate, stretch....  This is not the end of the world...  you might be catastrophizing a bit....  I hear your frustration.  This isn't easy.  I'm sorry, hope your Saturday is going better so far.

Only-Expression-3588

Indian-origin doctor Neil K Anand has been sentenced to 14 years in prison for orchestrating a healthcare fraud scheme.

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